Wednesday, 11th of September, 2024

Played at Stephan's place. PIMS. We talk about energy and mass in physical system, then jump to how to lose weight, and then to electric scooters. Stephan also comments about the questions he receives in his classroom.

Game played

Winners

Notes
Isle of Cats Stephan Reebs Mike and Stephan have played Isle of Cats before, and they introduce it to Ian and Pascal. Stephan wins this inaugural game with 84 points, just 4 more points than Pascal.

Comments:

Alain Haché - 2024-09-12 12:39:06:

Dang, hope we can continue discussing energy and mass next time!

Ian Stewart - 2024-09-12 12:54:21:

I've made wild claims. I'll need to watch a lot of videos.

Mike Gerdov - 2024-09-12 12:58:58:

We were basically discussing validity of this:
[image: image.png]
and even this:
[image: image.png]
Stephan was not convinced.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]

Alain Haché - 2024-09-12 16:35:53:

Yes, when my Tesla is fully charged with 75 kWh of energy, it weights 3 micrograms more.
Basically what E = mc2 allows you to say is this: if a closed system S loses (or gains) a mass dm, it loses (or gains) E = (dm)c2 of energy.
A
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 09:58
À : HFG <[email protected]>
Cc : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>; Alain Haché <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
We were basically discussing validity of this:
[image.png]
and even this:
[image.png]
Stephan was not convinced.
[meeple]
Alain Haché left a comment on event from Wednesday, 11th of September, 2024<http://hfgclub.ca/events?event_id=529#post_comment>;:
"Dang, hope we can continue discussing energy and mass next time! "
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.

Mike Gerdov - 2024-09-12 17:16:58:

I see how it is easier to wrap your mind around kinetic energy change,
leading to mass change. But somehow potential energy leading to mass, is a
bit wild. Like the further you lift a dumbbell off the ground, the heavier
it gets :-) (provided gravity remains the same)
My arms can feel it, but my mind is not convinced :-)
M.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]

Ian Stewart - 2024-09-12 17:29:48:

I hope the Tesla software includes that 75 ug in it's watt/km calculation.

Alain Haché - 2024-09-12 18:09:28:

The dumbbell idea is neat.
As you lift it up, potential energy and mass increase, but the gravitational pull decreases much faster just by moving it away from Earth. Overall it will become lighter, not heavier.
So you can neglect relativistic effects at the gym.
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 14:16
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]>
Cc : HFG <[email protected]>; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
I see how it is easier to wrap your mind around kinetic energy change, leading to mass change. But somehow potential energy leading to mass, is a bit wild. Like the further you lift a dumbbell off the ground, the heavier it gets :-) (provided gravity remains the same)
My arms can feel it, but my mind is not convinced :-)
M.
Yes, when my Tesla is fully charged with 75 kWh of energy, it weights 3 micrograms more.
Basically what E = mc2 allows you to say is this: if a closed system S loses (or gains) a mass dm, it loses (or gains) E = (dm)c2 of energy.
A
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 09:58
À : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>;
Cc : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>;; Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
We were basically discussing validity of this:
[image.png]
and even this:
[image.png]
Stephan was not convinced.
[meeple]
Alain Haché left a comment on event from Wednesday, 11th of September, 2024<http://hfgclub.ca/events?event_id=529#post_comment>;:
"Dang, hope we can continue discussing energy and mass next time! "
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.

Stephan Reebs - 2024-09-12 18:35:56:

I still don’t understand how something can be energy AND mass at the same time, so that when you add energy to something you’re also adding mass as a consequence. I understand that something can be energy OR mass, and can be transformed from one to the other according to E = mC2, but I still don’t see how adding energy automatically adds mass too.
I, like Feynman, don’t understand relativity.
Stéphan Reebs
Responsable des programmes spéciaux
Faculté des sciences
et
Professeur titulaire
Département de biologie
Université de Moncton
Moncton, NB, E1A 3E9
Canada
Tel: 506-858-4384
De : Alain Haché <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 15:09
À : [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc : HFG <[email protected]>; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
The dumbbell idea is neat.
As you lift it up, potential energy and mass increase, but the gravitational pull decreases much faster just by moving it away from Earth. Overall it will become lighter, not heavier.
So you can neglect relativistic effects at the gym.
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 14:16
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
I see how it is easier to wrap your mind around kinetic energy change, leading to mass change. But somehow potential energy leading to mass, is a bit wild. Like the further you lift a dumbbell off the ground, the heavier it gets :-) (provided gravity remains the same)
My arms can feel it, but my mind is not convinced :-)
M.
Yes, when my Tesla is fully charged with 75 kWh of energy, it weights 3 micrograms more.
Basically what E = mc2 allows you to say is this: if a closed system S loses (or gains) a mass dm, it loses (or gains) E = (dm)c2 of energy.
A
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 09:58
À : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
We were basically discussing validity of this:
[cid:[email protected]]
and even this:
[cid:[email protected]]
Stephan was not convinced.
[meeple]
Alain Haché left a comment on event from Wednesday, 11th of September, 2024<http://hfgclub.ca/events?event_id=529#post_comment>;:
"Dang, hope we can continue discussing energy and mass next time! "
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.

Alain Haché - 2024-09-12 18:45:59:

Mass and energy are conserved together. So back to Mike + dumbbell:
1.
Mike (M) moves dumbbell up, so M has less chemical energy (less glucose/ATP) and also a tiny less amount of mass
2.
Dumbbell (D) moves up and gains the same amount of potential and kinetic energy, and mass
So in the closed M+D system it's all conserved (technically we should include Earth too since it's involved in gravity).
________________________________
De : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 15:35
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc : HFG <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Objet : RE: HFG Mailer
I still don’t understand how something can be energy AND mass at the same time, so that when you add energy to something you’re also adding mass as a consequence. I understand that something can be energy OR mass, and can be transformed from one to the other according to E = mC2, but I still don’t see how adding energy automatically adds mass too.
I, like Feynman, don’t understand relativity.
Stéphan Reebs
Responsable des programmes spéciaux
Faculté des sciences
et
Professeur titulaire
Département de biologie
Université de Moncton
Moncton, NB, E1A 3E9
Canada
Tel: 506-858-4384
De : Alain Haché <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 15:09
À : [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc : HFG <[email protected]>; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
The dumbbell idea is neat.
As you lift it up, potential energy and mass increase, but the gravitational pull decreases much faster just by moving it away from Earth. Overall it will become lighter, not heavier.
So you can neglect relativistic effects at the gym.
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 14:16
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
I see how it is easier to wrap your mind around kinetic energy change, leading to mass change. But somehow potential energy leading to mass, is a bit wild. Like the further you lift a dumbbell off the ground, the heavier it gets :-) (provided gravity remains the same)
My arms can feel it, but my mind is not convinced :-)
M.
Yes, when my Tesla is fully charged with 75 kWh of energy, it weights 3 micrograms more.
Basically what E = mc2 allows you to say is this: if a closed system S loses (or gains) a mass dm, it loses (or gains) E = (dm)c2 of energy.
A
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 09:58
À : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
We were basically discussing validity of this:
[cid:[email protected]]
and even this:
[cid:[email protected]]
Stephan was not convinced.
[meeple]
Alain Haché left a comment on event from Wednesday, 11th of September, 2024<http://hfgclub.ca/events?event_id=529#post_comment>;:
"Dang, hope we can continue discussing energy and mass next time! "
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.

Alain Haché - 2024-09-12 18:49:24:

But yeah, relativistic gym training is a bit tricky 🙂
________________________________
De : Alain Haché <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 15:45
À : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc : HFG <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Mass and energy are conserved together. So back to Mike + dumbbell:
1.
Mike (M) moves dumbbell up, so M has less chemical energy (less glucose/ATP) and also a tiny less amount of mass
2.
Dumbbell (D) moves up and gains the same amount of potential and kinetic energy, and mass
So in the closed M+D system it's all conserved (technically we should include Earth too since it's involved in gravity).
________________________________
De : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 15:35
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc : HFG <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Objet : RE: HFG Mailer
I still don’t understand how something can be energy AND mass at the same time, so that when you add energy to something you’re also adding mass as a consequence. I understand that something can be energy OR mass, and can be transformed from one to the other according to E = mC2, but I still don’t see how adding energy automatically adds mass too.
I, like Feynman, don’t understand relativity.
Stéphan Reebs
Responsable des programmes spéciaux
Faculté des sciences
et
Professeur titulaire
Département de biologie
Université de Moncton
Moncton, NB, E1A 3E9
Canada
Tel: 506-858-4384
De : Alain Haché <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 15:09
À : [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc : HFG <[email protected]>; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
The dumbbell idea is neat.
As you lift it up, potential energy and mass increase, but the gravitational pull decreases much faster just by moving it away from Earth. Overall it will become lighter, not heavier.
So you can neglect relativistic effects at the gym.
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 14:16
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
I see how it is easier to wrap your mind around kinetic energy change, leading to mass change. But somehow potential energy leading to mass, is a bit wild. Like the further you lift a dumbbell off the ground, the heavier it gets :-) (provided gravity remains the same)
My arms can feel it, but my mind is not convinced :-)
M.
Yes, when my Tesla is fully charged with 75 kWh of energy, it weights 3 micrograms more.
Basically what E = mc2 allows you to say is this: if a closed system S loses (or gains) a mass dm, it loses (or gains) E = (dm)c2 of energy.
A
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 09:58
À : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
We were basically discussing validity of this:
[cid:[email protected]]
and even this:
[cid:[email protected]]
Stephan was not convinced.
[meeple]
Alain Haché left a comment on event from Wednesday, 11th of September, 2024<http://hfgclub.ca/events?event_id=529#post_comment>;:
"Dang, hope we can continue discussing energy and mass next time! "
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.

Mike Gerdov - 2024-09-12 19:30:02:

I can think of this inaccurate extrapolation into "classical" mechanics:
if we understand mass, like a matter's ability to resist external force,
which is trying to change its movement. Then the matter which has any
energy will have additional forces affecting it, potentially counteracting
the external force, so for external force the matter will appear heavier.
(not sure how convincing that is).
M.
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 3:35 PM Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>
wrote:
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]

Mike Gerdov - 2024-09-12 19:36:34:

The thing is that, it's not that the mass can convert to energy or
vise-versa in some particular scenarios, no. The mass Is energy, basically
the same thing.
Like a photon being a carrier of energy has mass. But if a photon is not
carrying energy, it has no mass (and also does not exist) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
M.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]

Mike Gerdov - 2024-09-12 19:43:06:

Also on why proton-electron atom weights less then sum of proton + electron:
there are fields that attract proton and electron when they are at
distance, think of it like stretched spring (high potential energy), But
when those two are together the field created work bringing them close, the
stretched spring has shorten (low potential energy). So
proton-electron being close by, have less energy, so they have less mass.
And surprisingly that deficit is even larger then a kinetic energy an
electron will have moving around proton, so a system is still lighter!
M.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]

Ian Stewart - 2024-09-12 20:20:54:

Nerds.

Ian Stewart - 2024-09-12 20:43:25:

Wooow! I think you discovered how corgis reproduce.

Stephan Reebs - 2024-09-13 12:56:55:

A photon has mass? WTF?
Stéphan Reebs
Responsable des programmes spéciaux
Faculté des sciences
et
Professeur titulaire
Département de biologie
Université de Moncton
Moncton, NB, E1A 3E9
Canada
Tel: 506-858-4384
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]>
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 16:36
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]>
Cc : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>; HFG <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
The thing is that, it's not that the mass can convert to energy or vise-versa in some particular scenarios, no. The mass Is energy, basically the same thing.
Like a photon being a carrier of energy has mass. But if a photon is not carrying energy, it has no mass (and also does not exist) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
M.
Mass and energy are conserved together. So back to Mike + dumbbell:
1. Mike (M) moves dumbbell up, so M has less chemical energy (less glucose/ATP) and also a tiny less amount of mass
1. Dumbbell (D) moves up and gains the same amount of potential and kinetic energy, and mass
So in the closed M+D system it's all conserved (technically we should include Earth too since it's involved in gravity).
________________________________
De : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 15:35
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : RE: HFG Mailer
I still don’t understand how something can be energy AND mass at the same time, so that when you add energy to something you’re also adding mass as a consequence. I understand that something can be energy OR mass, and can be transformed from one to the other according to E = mC2, but I still don’t see how adding energy automatically adds mass too.
I, like Feynman, don’t understand relativity.
Stéphan Reebs
Responsable des programmes spéciaux
Faculté des sciences
et
Professeur titulaire
Département de biologie
Université de Moncton
Moncton, NB, E1A 3E9
Canada
Tel: 506-858-4384
De : Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 15:09
À : [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
The dumbbell idea is neat.
As you lift it up, potential energy and mass increase, but the gravitational pull decreases much faster just by moving it away from Earth. Overall it will become lighter, not heavier.
So you can neglect relativistic effects at the gym.
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 14:16
À : Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
I see how it is easier to wrap your mind around kinetic energy change, leading to mass change. But somehow potential energy leading to mass, is a bit wild. Like the further you lift a dumbbell off the ground, the heavier it gets :-) (provided gravity remains the same)
My arms can feel it, but my mind is not convinced :-)
M.
Yes, when my Tesla is fully charged with 75 kWh of energy, it weights 3 micrograms more.
Basically what E = mc2 allows you to say is this: if a closed system S loses (or gains) a mass dm, it loses (or gains) E = (dm)c2 of energy.
A
________________________________
De : Mikhail Gerdov <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Envoyé : 12 septembre 2024 09:58
À : HFG <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;
Cc : Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; Alain Haché <[email protected]<[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>">[email protected]>>;; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>; [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>; <[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>">[email protected]>;>
Objet : Re: HFG Mailer
Attention: courriel externe
We were basically discussing validity of this:
[cid:[email protected]]
and even this:
[cid:[email protected]]
Stephan was not convinced.
[meeple]
Alain Haché left a comment on event from Wednesday, 11th of September, 2024<http://hfgclub.ca/events?event_id=529#post_comment>;:
"Dang, hope we can continue discussing energy and mass next time! "
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>">[email protected]<[email protected]>;
L'information contenue dans ce courriel (y compris les pièces jointes) est confidentielle et vise uniquement son destinataire ou ses destinataires. Toute autre distribution, copie ou divulgation est interdite. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser et éliminer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers.

Mike Gerdov - 2024-09-13 20:01:13:

It has "kinetic mass" of photon=m=hcλ, no "rest mass"
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 9:56 AM Stephan G. Reebs <[email protected]>
wrote:
--
Best regards,
Mikhail Gerdov [email protected]

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